Kommentare zu: Einer, der nicht Rabbiner sein wollte http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/ Das Blog des Österreichischen Jüdischen Museums Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:48:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Von: Der Mattersdorfer Matriken-Krimi http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1617 Der Mattersdorfer Matriken-Krimi Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:53:37 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1617 [...] Kohn (gest. 1888) war Vorsitzender des Rabbinatsgerichts von Mattersdorf und als Nachfolger von R. Ahron Singer von 1868 bis 1878 Rabbinatsverweser. In dieser Eigenschaft war er für die Führung der Geburts-, [...] [...] Kohn (gest. 1888) war Vorsitzender des Rabbinatsgerichts von Mattersdorf und als Nachfolger von R. Ahron Singer von 1868 bis 1878 Rabbinatsverweser. In dieser Eigenschaft war er für die Führung der Geburts-, [...]

]]> Von: Chaya-Bathya Markovits http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1536 Chaya-Bathya Markovits Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:11:06 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1536 Das oben erwähnte Legat scheint dasselbe zu sein, das in der Allgemeinen Zeitung des Judentums 45 (6.11.1843), S. 673 erwähnt wird: Zeitungsnachrichten, Groß-Kanischa, 1. Okt.: das für bedürftige Rabbinatskandidaten bestimmte Legat der Frau Lea Löwenstein (600 fl. W. W. für Aussteuer) an Josef Szanto vergeben, Sohn des Rabb. Meier Szanto. Der hier erwähnte Josef Szanto war übrigens der Bruder des in Wien tätigen Religionslehrers und Redakteurs der "Neuzeit", Simon Szanto, und ebenfalls Lehrer in Wien. Das oben erwähnte Legat scheint dasselbe zu sein, das in der Allgemeinen Zeitung des Judentums 45 (6.11.1843), S. 673 erwähnt wird:

Zeitungsnachrichten, Groß-Kanischa, 1. Okt.: das für bedürftige Rabbinatskandidaten bestimmte Legat der Frau Lea Löwenstein (600 fl. W. W. für Aussteuer) an Josef Szanto vergeben, Sohn des Rabb. Meier Szanto.

Der hier erwähnte Josef Szanto war übrigens der Bruder des in Wien tätigen Religionslehrers und Redakteurs der “Neuzeit”, Simon Szanto, und ebenfalls Lehrer in Wien.

]]> Von: Christopher http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1121 Christopher Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:39:05 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1121 Offtopic: Israel @all! Just want to let you know that I will be in Israel next month, from August 9th to August 28th. So, if there’s any data or documents to be shared or exchanged or whatever this would be a good opportunity. Just to let you know… Offtopic: Israel
@all! Just want to let you know that I will be in Israel next month, from August 9th to August 28th. So, if there’s any data or documents to be shared or exchanged or whatever this would be a good opportunity. Just to let you know…

]]> Von: Johannes http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1120 Johannes Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:01:22 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1120 Once more, a better quality of the seal, just for you, dear Meir :) <div class="mittig1F"> <a rel="lightbox[270410]" title="Matriken Sopron, 1864, Rabbinatssiegel" href="http://www.ojm.at/blog/bilder/siegel2GR.jpg"><img src="http://www.ojm.at/blog/bilder/siegel2.jpg" width="350" height="156" alt="Matriken Sopron, 1864, Rabbinatssiegel" /></a> </div> Once more, a better quality of the seal, just for you, dear Meir :)

Matriken Sopron, 1864, Rabbinatssiegel
]]> Von: Elise Penzias http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1118 Elise Penzias Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:06:53 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1118 Mr. Deutsch - thank you for this very interesting explanation, which I can follow as long as the letter are not in hebrew (sorry) - but the lingusitic "french -connection" seams so clear (even for me)! Was für unverzichtbare Viten steigen aus dem Studium der alten Steine wieder "herauf" ! A.Singer als ein großartiges Beispiel des Dialogs zwischen den Religionen? In jedem Fall verstand er es Andersgläubige nachhaltig zu beeindrucken. Danke für diesen Beitrag über sein Leben! Mr. Deutsch – thank you for this very interesting explanation, which I can follow as long as the letter are not in hebrew (sorry) – but the lingusitic “french -connection” seams so clear (even for me)!

Was für unverzichtbare Viten steigen aus dem Studium der alten Steine wieder “herauf” ! A.Singer als ein großartiges Beispiel des Dialogs zwischen den Religionen? In jedem Fall verstand er es Andersgläubige nachhaltig zu beeindrucken. Danke für diesen Beitrag über sein Leben!

]]> Von: Carole Vogel http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1084 Carole Vogel Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:31:35 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1084 @Chaya-Bathya. I'll let Yitzchok field this question if he wants. But suffice it to say that by using various sources of information Yitzchok was able to prove that errors were made. @Chaya-Bathya. I’ll let Yitzchok field this question if he wants. But suffice it to say that by using various sources of information Yitzchok was able to prove that errors were made.

]]> Von: Carole Vogel http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1083 Carole Vogel Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:25:12 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1083 Regina Singer doesn't show up in other metrical records. If she were related to Ahron Singer it would likely have to be through marriage as she was a widow and Singer was likely her husband's surname.. Regina Singer doesn’t show up in other metrical records. If she were related to Ahron Singer it would likely have to be through marriage as she was a widow and Singer was likely her husband’s surname..

]]> Von: Chaya-Bathya Markovits http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1082 Chaya-Bathya Markovits Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:42:37 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1082 Bezueglich meiner Angabe oben R. Mendel Deutsch sei der Bruder von R. Josef Zwi Deutsch (nach Kinstlicher) moechte ich hier auf den folgenden Kommentar hinweisen: Carole Vogel schreibt am 22. Juli 2010 um 20:09 zu "Deutsch (Sopher) Jakob Schlomo": Yes, I remember when Yitzchok Stroh was working this through. It became clear that there was an error in the Deutsch-Sofer tree in Toldot Sofrim and Rabbi Kintslicher’s book. ... And it became clear quite early on that Josef Zvi Deutsch-Sofer was NOT the brother of Mendel Deutsch. He was the uncle. Eine Klaerung dieser Frage ist wirklich interessant. Bezueglich meiner Angabe oben R. Mendel Deutsch sei der Bruder von R. Josef Zwi Deutsch (nach Kinstlicher) moechte ich hier auf den folgenden Kommentar hinweisen:

Carole Vogel schreibt am 22. Juli 2010 um 20:09 zu “Deutsch (Sopher) Jakob Schlomo”:

Yes, I remember when Yitzchok Stroh was working this through. It became clear that there was an error in the Deutsch-Sofer tree in Toldot Sofrim and Rabbi Kintslicher’s book. … And it became clear quite early on that Josef Zvi Deutsch-Sofer was NOT the brother of Mendel Deutsch. He was the uncle.

Eine Klaerung dieser Frage ist wirklich interessant.

]]> Von: Chaya-Bathya Markovits http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1077 Chaya-Bathya Markovits Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:16:40 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1077 Das Werk "Tif'eret Aharon" is on-line auf "Hebrewbooks" zu finden: http://hebrewbooks.org/41116. Das Werk “Tif’eret Aharon” is on-line auf “Hebrewbooks” zu finden: http://hebrewbooks.org/41116.

]]> Von: Chaya-Bathya Markovits http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1075 Chaya-Bathya Markovits Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:14:20 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1075 Weiss jemand vielleicht, wer die 73jaehrige Witwe Regine Singer ist, die im Bild des Toten-Protokolls als im Jaenner 1864 verstorben aufscheint? Eine Verwandte von R. Ahron Singer? Does anybody know who is the 73 year old widow Regine Singer registered as deceased in January 1864 (in the photo)? Is she related to R. Ahron Singer? Weiss jemand vielleicht, wer die 73jaehrige Witwe Regine Singer ist, die im Bild des Toten-Protokolls als im Jaenner 1864 verstorben aufscheint? Eine Verwandte von R. Ahron Singer?

Does anybody know who is the 73 year old widow Regine Singer registered as deceased in January 1864 (in the photo)? Is she related to R. Ahron Singer?

]]> Von: Carole Vogel http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1074 Carole Vogel Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:16:32 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1074 While we are claiming bragging rights: Ignatz Deutsch is my great-great-great-grandfather, too (and Rabbi Ahron Singer is the husband of my third cousin three times removed but Meir Deutsch can claim a closer relationship to Ahron Singer: Rabbi Singer is the husband of Meir's first cousin three times removed.) While we are claiming bragging rights: Ignatz Deutsch is my great-great-great-grandfather, too (and Rabbi Ahron Singer is the husband of my third cousin three times removed but Meir Deutsch can claim a closer relationship to Ahron Singer: Rabbi Singer is the husband of Meir’s first cousin three times removed.)

]]> Von: Meir Deutsch http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1073 Meir Deutsch Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:45:37 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1073 Let us see why in speech, in the Yiddish language, we say Aron or Aaron and not Ahron or Aharon. As we know, the Jews came to Poland from the Rheinland (others came probably from the Kingdom of Kuzar). Yiddish in Poland was brought by Jews from the Rhine region that is bordering Germany and France. It is mostly a German dialect influenced by the French language and mixed with a bit of Hebrew. Let us see the French influence to the language. In the French language you do not pronounce the letter H in the middle of a word. If someone is called Ahron you pronounce it as Aron, Aharon will be Aaron. We can see the French influence on the Yiddish, but let us continue. In French you also do not pronounce the letter S in a word, the same we have in Yiddish: Gewesen = געווען . You pronounce the letter U as I In French, and in Yiddish: Hut= היט, Tuch=טיך, Gut= גיט, Blut = בליט, Fuss=פיס . The letter O is pronounced as in French, as OJ: Rot= רויט Brot=ברויט. In French the letter A is pronounced as U. So in Yiddish we have: Faden=פודען Magen=מוגען, Sagen=זוגען . In French plural ends with a S . We do the same in Yiddish: מוהמס, טעטעס, שמאטעס. If we come back to Ahron Singer, it is not surprising if we make the mistake of Aron, as that is what we hear, the Phonetics, of the name in Yiddish. גם הרמ"א בפירוש תשובותיו מעיד על כך ואומר: "אנחנו בני אשכנז וצרפת ועלינו להחזיק במנהגי אבותינו." Let us see why in speech, in the Yiddish language, we say Aron or Aaron and not Ahron or Aharon.
As we know, the Jews came to Poland from the Rheinland (others came probably from the Kingdom of Kuzar). Yiddish in Poland was brought by Jews from the Rhine region that is bordering Germany and France. It is mostly a German dialect influenced by the French language and mixed with a bit of Hebrew. Let us see the French influence to the language. In the French language you do not pronounce the letter H in the middle of a word. If someone is called Ahron you pronounce it as Aron, Aharon will be Aaron. We can see the French influence on the Yiddish, but let us continue. In French you also do not pronounce the letter S in a word, the same we have in Yiddish: Gewesen = געווען . You pronounce the letter U as I In French, and in Yiddish: Hut= היט, Tuch=טיך, Gut= גיט, Blut = בליט, Fuss=פיס . The letter O is pronounced as in French, as OJ: Rot= רויט Brot=ברויט. In French the letter A is pronounced as U. So in Yiddish we have: Faden=פודען Magen=מוגען, Sagen=זוגען . In French plural ends with a S . We do the same in Yiddish: מוהמס, טעטעס, שמאטעס.

If we come back to Ahron Singer, it is not surprising if we make the mistake of Aron, as that is what we hear, the Phonetics, of the name in Yiddish.

גם הרמ”א בפירוש תשובותיו מעיד על כך ואומר: “אנחנו בני אשכנז וצרפת ועלינו להחזיק במנהגי אבותינו.”

]]> Von: Johannes http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1072 Johannes Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:28:43 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1072 To the surprise of all - pay attention to the signature! <div class="mittig1F"> <a rel="lightbox[270410]" title="Matriken Sopron, 1864, Siegel und Unterschrift von Ahron Singer" href="http://www.ojm.at/blog/bilder/siegelASGR.jpg"><img src="http://www.ojm.at/blog/bilder/siegelAS.jpg" width="350" height="227" alt="Matriken Sopron, 1864, Siegel und Unterschrift von Ahron Singer" /></a> </div> To the surprise of all – pay attention to the signature!

Matriken Sopron, 1864, Siegel und Unterschrift von Ahron Singer
]]> Von: Christopher http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1071 Christopher Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:22:59 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1071 Johannes called me: he found the picture, it will be online in just a few minutes. And - we've not only found the seal in the picture...prepare for another surprise, everybody! ;) Johannes called me: he found the picture, it will be online in just a few minutes. And – we’ve not only found the seal in the picture…prepare for another surprise, everybody! ;)

]]> Von: Christopher http://www.ojm.at/blog/2010/07/19/einer-der-nicht-rabbiner-sein-wollte/#comment-1070 Christopher Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:07:49 +0000 http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=484#comment-1070 I'm pretty sure I took a picture of the seal while working on the death records in the sopron archives - I'll have a look when I'm back at the museum (unfortunately not before sunday)... I’m pretty sure I took a picture of the seal while working on the death records in the sopron archives – I’ll have a look when I’m back at the museum (unfortunately not before sunday)…

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